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control panel switch emulators for FP NC Machines

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One of the things I find frustrating with Dialog 2 (and probably D3 and D4, but that is outside my experience) is that there are so many machining steps that cannot be automated. So I become the repetitive automaton, and doing a production run gets old fast (see this post for an example: using a Centricator). It occurred to me that one way to extend D2 to add some of the missing capabilities would be to find a way to emulate the control panel switches in software. Think keyboard macros.

I read Mud's posts about replacing control panel switches, and it got me thinking: the keyboard switch interface is very primitive, it would not take a lot of logic to emulate each switch input, and most likely there are products out there that could be adapted or that would just require some level of customization to do the task. I'm not a ME or EE, but probably a PLC would work, or perhaps something simpler.

Now, what could one do with such an emulator?

Assuming you had a Perl or Python interpreter running on a Mac or PC that could talk to the emulator and that could accept input from a Renishaw probe on the fly, you would have a whole new level of control over an FP NC.
Such a program could change Dialog modes programmatically and modify or write a program, reset machine zero, print useful messages on the computer screen, etc. Or thinking more simply, it could be used like a keyboard macro to input repetitive keystroke combinations. Think how useful it would be if you had a command to find the center of a hole and set machine zero to that location. You could also add new capabilities to D2, like machining a helix. It would also provide a trickle down interface for any version of Dialog; i.e. you would have a simple way to load a program in parts, so memory size would not be a limitation.

what think ye, Deckel cognoscenti?

1986 deckel fp3nc/dialog 4: Power/start-up issue

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Hello PM members in the Deckel Forum.
Brief history: The 1986 Deckel FP3NC with Dialog4 I own has been in storage for seven years. [I'm second owner and had used it when it was new.] Other than a faulty monitor, the machine was fully functional prior to this time. I recently put power to it but it is unresponsive. I "believe" I've reconnected all wires and connectors correctly as I have a 1988 Deckel EDM that has very similar (if not identical) transformer(s) and connections to compare it to. I own all the original manuals but I'm a novice at diagnosing technical and electrical information. [The fact the most detailed info is written in German doesn't help.] I read online there are (3) separate batteries that should often be replaced, but I can not find any of them either on the machine or in the manuals. I've also read: "round type capacitors on the power boards get old and need replacing" but I am not sure where they are located either. As a reference I've posted a few photos of some of the boards and the their lighted LED's.
I know there are many highly skilled, highly knowledgeable and considerate PM members out there - I hope someone will kindly give me some information, instruction, recommendations or suggestions on how to go about getting my old Deckel up and running again. Even a referral to a technician who's familiar with Deckels who serves the Southern California area would be appreciated.

Thank you all in advance,
WazMan
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Maho MH 600P - Request for Documentation (Manual,Handbuch)

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Hello ! I just bought Maho MH 600P
But there is a problem.
Power is connect correctly but when i power up machine it says Stromunterbrechung.
And there is no manual with the machine as well.
Mabye somebody can send me all manuals and diagrams about the machine.

Thank You
Mihkel
:)

mluik4@gmail.com

G&M Tools in the UK appears to have a few pieces of Deckel 40 Int stuff Sep 2017

Alexander Master Toolmaker / Deckel FP1 copy Slotting head wanted

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Hi All

I know it's not a Deckel related post but there ain't a group for Alexander Master Toolmaker bits yet , anyway I'm after a slotting head attachment for the Alexander Master Toolmaker and thought somebody might have one for sale , thought I had luck recently with one but it turned out to be a Deckel which with different pressure angle on drive gear is no use to me .
If you know of any Alexander attachments for sale for that matter please get in touch .

Regards M slater

Deckel FP3A TNC320 Machine Parameters Lost

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Hello,

We have a Deckel FP3A with Heidenhain TNC 320 Control. The machine was working fine since 1986, but last year some electronic problems started. First the X axis control card failed, we looked for a second hand card and we replaced it. This works for three months, but now the control has lost the machine parameters. The original information was printed and we have lost those pappers. Either we don't have any floppy disk.

So, we would appreciate if someone could provide these parameters, in order to start again the machine.

Thanks

Looking for Deckel FP2-NC Dialog4/NPP90 EPROMs

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I recently got another broken milling machine that needs some love, it's a super cheap Deckel FP2-NC this time.

It randomly gets a BA00 30 BA16 error during bootup. I since have checked all batteries and the SRAMs on the NSP55 board. All power supply voltages are good, too. Changed some dubious caps on the NSV just for good measure. If the machine decides to run, I also get an error 28 sometimes, which points to bad EPROM in the NPP90.

Due to the randomness of the fault, I now believe some EPROMs (there are a total of 33 EPROMs inside that machine, total madness) have gone bad (charge leaked out of the floating gate).

I had that kind of problem in the PLC of my now fixed Maho 700P/TNC135, problem was gone as soon as I put newly programed EPROMs in it. Only a few of memory locations need to change and the machine develops a life on it's own. Also, depending on temperature and operating voltage, a faulty EPROM might read differently, because the reading circuitry is still analog at it's heart (voltage levels gets sensed differently). This is the reason why the error occurs at random.

My software versions
NPP90: 351.04 (4x TMS-2564)
4x NZP59: 352.10 (je 1x 27C128)
NRP53/54: 353.81 (4x 27C128)
NPP54: 353.42/2.19 (8x 27C128)
NEP52: 353.32/2.16 (10x 27C512)
NPP55: 353.21/2.14 (2x 27C512)
NCR53: 352.00 (1x27C256)

All EPROMs should be fairly easy to read, the TMS-2564 can be read with common programmers, if the pins are permuted according to this document:
http://www.dasarodesigns.com/wp-cont...salAdapter.pdf
All pins connected 1:1, except these: (P: programmer socket side, C: chip socket side/TMS-2564)
2P=>22C; 20P=>23C; 22P=>27C; 23P=>2C; 27P=>20C

So, if anyone has already dumped their ERPOMs, could you please send me the binaries? It's also quite smart to backup the data inside the ERPOMs while your machine is still running. Any cheap TL866 will work for that, only costs $40 on ebay. Would be especially nice, if I could somehow get newer firmware revision, 2.33 or 3.07 :).


TL;DR: Please someone send me the EPROM binaries for/from a Deckel Dialog 4. V2.33/3.07 preferably :D
Mail: hinzz1 (at) hotmail (.) com
Thanks

Aciera F1

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Guys,

I have a line on one and wanted to get a sanity check on pricing.

2250$ comes with a full set of collets, index head, index plates, vice levers....seems pretty complete.

Havent seen it in person, but seems in good shape.

What do you think? I really have no use for it, but it cute as hell.

Regards, Vinay

Anybody has a Maho 700P ?

To Rebuild or to Not Rebuild

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This post concerns a Zimmermann pattern making mill, which, being German, I thought might be best posted here rather than another section.

I've had the mill for more than a year now and everyday find new uses for it. It's been great, but not without some issues, especially lately. These issues are unsurprising given that the mill was made in 1971 and is 46 years old.

Known problems:

-quill is sticky and takes too much force to plunge up and down with. It's so sticky that the automatic feed will disengage itself.
-quill has a degree of rotational slop as well, normally not an issue unless one bolts the right-angle milling head into place. It will not keep it aligned.
-quill lock is also sticky, and if clamped tight then seems to jam itself closed, making for a disassembly if you want to loosen it.
-when raising in Z direction, there is a groaning noise at a certain portion of the travel.
-occasionally the powered Z-travel will get stuck 'on' when raising up, requiring a mad dash to the wall to pull the circuit disconnect. A Minor electrical issue somewhere. I've taken the switch itself all apart but the problem does not lie inside the switch. The problem happens only occasionally and cannot be predicted.
-the manual brake inside the pulley block atop the drive spindle had worn out, so changing tool holders is now a hassle.
-the table has powered rotation, however this suddenly stopped working a couple of weeks back, right in the middle of a project naturally. I am suspecting that either a gear inside has worn out, or perhaps become unmoored from it's position. There's no way to tell without removing the entire saddle from the knee. The drive motor, which also handles x-travel, works fine, and x-travel drive works fine.

Not huge problems but merely annoying:

-the machine accepts ISO 40 taper tooling, however instead of using a draw bar, it uses a large collet nut to fix the tool holder, which presents some limitation as to the range of tool holders which can be fitted. I would prefer to have a powered drawbar retrofitted.
-the machine has a secondary spindle at the other end of the ram, which can turn up to 14,000 rpm. I can't make much use of it however, due to the unique tool holding system, made by Zimmermann, comprising a MT3 taper with a male threaded spigot on the upper end. I have a few tools for it, but not enough to make it worthwhile swinging it into place from time to time. It is basically a large paperweight at this point. I'd rather change it over to ISO 30 tool holding if possible.
-when I fill the saddle and knee up with way oil, it leaks. It's an old machine, it leaks.

Zimmermann is very much in business, making CNC machining centers for the mold and pattern industries, however they offer zero factory support or parts for my machine. That kinda sucks, frankly, but I understand why that is.

Of course, everything can be rebuilt, but always at a cost, which is what scares me. I do not have a second mill and a precision lathe, etc., etc., for fabricating parts myself, or making other repairs so I would have to pay a machine rebuilder to tackle any of that work. I can well imagine that fixing the main spindle alone could suck up $4000~5000. I am under the impression that a rebuild of the saddle and knee, including a whatever scraping is required could be a $20,000 bill. I'm just guessing though. I feel I could tackle the scraping myself, though I have no experience in that area and lack many of the reference tools. I'd welcome the challenge, but know that I would be stepping into a sink or swim sort of situation. And there's also the question of the amount of non-paying shop time that can be devoted to this, as my shop is a business and not a hobby.

Compared to purchasing a new machine, rebuilding is still a cost-effective option. but I wouldn't be in the market for a new machine regardless. And I'm wary of the can of worms effect if I start taking anything apart, finding more and more things needing attention. For less than the price of the rebuild, I could find myself another machine, perhaps a newer version of the same machine, and of course, there are going to be unknowns with that. Maybe it will prove to need rebuilding too. Unless you know the sort of service and maintenance life the mill has undergone, it can be hard to predict condition from photos, and flying to Germany to inspect is, well, another cost (probably worthwhile though, especially if there were several options to look at, which at present there are not). Better to stick with the devil I know, or not?

So, what to do? I'm $10,000 into the mill at this juncture. I can't afford a full rebuild by a professional company that does the work for a living. I'm still getting use out of the machine, but how long until something critical fails and the machine becomes unusable? Problems are mounting and will need addressing before long - well, the sooner the better of course. I'm sure many of you have been in a similar boat at some point in time. What would you do?

Electrical Doku: FP4MA with Contour 2 which has electric contactors K50 to K52

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I search for a electrical documentation of a FP4MA which has a special electric wiring.
You can easy check it . If your machine has an electric contactor signed K50,K51 and K52 near K1 to K4 it may be the right type.

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The Eproms on the NPP91 are also special for this machine.
Hope anybody can help with it.


The Dokumentation with the electrical wiring like here:

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is not the one i search.
there has to be a connection from Q3 to a electrical Contactor K50.

Thanks for your help.

Regards Michael
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draw bars and mt4 tooling for alexander toolmaker

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Hi ,
Bit of a silly question but im confused by my drawbars that came with my alexander. Its the mt4 spindle but i have two draw bars ,one has a collar that threads on and had a taper pin taped to it (this one looks like a proper one), The second one i have is totally different and just has a square head top and no collar .It is also a touch longer and has obviously been joined /welded or repaired at some time..
I havent managed to use the mill much yet but i am getting more time at the moment .

Also are the drawbars supposed to eject mt4 tooling with the s20 thread or what is the correct way to use them????

I also have some mt4 tooling that has a longer taper than the original alexander stuff with various threaded sizes like m16 or 5/8" ??? Will long tapered tooling have to be cut down somehow in order to use it in the vertical head?
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Deckel FP2a with Bosch TR20 Drive and -Siemens 1HU 3071 motors

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I'm in the process of upgrading the Heidenhain TNC 355 on my Deckel FP2A to a Heidenhain ITNC 530

I'm contemplating a completely new enclosure and rewire from scratch.
The axis motors will need to remain. I believe them to be DC -180V with Tachos.

Siemens 1HU 3071 for the X and Y axis and 3074 on the Z axis.

At the moment , the X/Y/Z motors are driven by a Bosch TR20 drive. There is also a 4th axis drive which uses a separate Emerson Digitax ST.

The question is, is it worth upgrading the TR20 while doing all this work and if so what with?

The drive is circa 1986 so isn't going to last forever and is also a considerable bulk in itself and requires a separate transformer to power it.



Any thoughts / help / opinions much appreciated.

understanding an Fp1

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good evening

firstly my apologies for not posting much and being an active member,
I admit I'm more of a taker on this site... but at least I'm honest :-)
part of it is I don't have much knowledge to contribute...

with that said, I'm looking for some assistance -
my background is in manufacturing operations management, I was a CAD/CAM engineer, and have managed CNC aerospace machine shops, but I'm not a machinist.

I'm a part time knife maker blade smith going full-time. The first machine I bought was a Burke Millrite MVN with DRO and power feed. It was a excellent and it hurt to sell especially since I got it for $800 delivered.

anyway, I'm setting up my new shop and came across a local Deckel. I went and looked at it today and it will be put under power for me this weekend. I will run it with a phase convertor since I don't have 3 phase,

I asked two machinists I know and they both said these are extremely high quality machines and good for short run production and versatility.

my use of the mill on knife making is actually very little but I like good quality equipment if I can. I mill slots, cut grooves, some face milling etc. But I prefer to overbuy if I can and have more capability than I need. A mill is handy for slip joint folders

these pics are from the seller's ad.
I'm attracted by the smaller size and table layout

my question is how is this FP1 different than your standard Bridgeport style mill (in terms of practical use) and what does the higher price offer me? And if you can lay any other knowledge on me it's most appreciated.
more questions -
Does the vertical spindle head move out of the way to use the horizontal spindle? Does the horizontal use the same collets? To move the ram back and forth, is there some geared mechanism?
What is the purpose of the black wheel in the back?

regards
Harbeer

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FP 1 FP 2 & FP3 at auction

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Just got back from the Ron Witherspoon auction in Castroville CA
the 3 Deckel in the sale the FP 1 went for $1200 the FP 2 $2750 and the FP3 just $2000. the big lot of tooling $1600
John

Bringing Home an FP3L

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Been pretty dissatisfied with all the Bridgeports I've run, so I've decided to try out a Deckel:
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I'm a little ashamed to move such a clean machine into my filthy shop, but it'll at least remain covered when not in use.

I expect to have a number of questions but will of course use search first.

For starters though, what do people do for power tapping on single-motor Deckels? Previous threads seem to indicate running a VFD to reverse the motor shouldn't hurt so long as the feeds aren't used? Do I have to get over my aversion to tapping heads?

Speaking of VFD's, 2000 RPM ain't that fast. I've found no mention of folks using VFD's to overspeed the motor. Is this likely to hurt the spindle bearings or feedworks?

I'm glad this machine seems to be in good shape and well maintained, but not pristine. I'm buying it to use it, so if it were much nicer and I might feel guilty when it starts slinging chips.

(Can't get the second photo to rotate, alas)
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Aciera F5 slotting attachment in action

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I had to customize two sprockets to fit a gearbox and saw input shaft. Not having the proper broaches, I hauled out the Aciera slotting attachment I picked up for my F5. I used a 1/2” lathe boring bar with a 3/16” bit turned sideways. It worked a treat.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Info required - Arrows on Deckel Vice

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Hi folks

I've just acquired a Deckel Vice and a little curious about two arrows on the top face of the jaws.

My gut thoughts are that as the vice fits on the Deckel Dividing Head and therefore can be rotated through 360° the arrows should line up with the direction of cut / rotation of the milling cutter.

Deckel Self Centering Vice #1
Deckel Self Centering Vice #2

Confirmation greatfully received ;)

John :typing:

tapping a hole that comes through on one side but not the other

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Posting here rather than in a general forum, because I trust the people here.

I'm making eight M10 threaded holes on the bottom side of my lathe bed, for fastening a taper attachment. The material is high quality cast iron.

Because of the shape of the casting, I have two choices:

(1) Make blind tapped holes about 20mm deep, or

(2) Make through holes, and tap them.

I would like to do (2), but the problem is, the shape of the casting is irregular, so the hole will pierce "through" on part of the boundary circle, and remain in the casting on the other part.

I think the last time I broke a tap was in exactly this situation. Once the tap got into the region where half the hole was in metal and half was in air, it twisted and broke.

So is a blind tapped hole the right thing?

Cheers, Bruce

Error FP01sollwertwith FP4MA Contour2

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I am facing the following things:
FP4MA with Contour 2
When i start the machine in BA5 i get the error FP01.
This is reproducable.
When i pull out the Board of the regulator for X-Axis i can switch on and drive the y/Z Axis.
When i pull out the Board of the regulator for Y/Z-Axis i can switch on and drive the x Axis.
This is without exchanging the regulator boards.

I exchanged both regulators and both Power Units for the axis , also the Power Supply 038035 to known working ones.
The error remains.
As the NRP53 deliveres the setpoints i also exchanged this. ERROR remains.
Now i am at a point where i dont have an idea what could cause the Error FP01 also.
Any ideas are welcome.

regards Michael
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