Can't get CNC function to work, Deckel FP3NC with Dialog 3 control

July 1, 2015, 1:24 pm

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Hey guys,

My name is Charles and I am new to this forum. I love this website and all of the technical help that you guys answer, so thank you in advance!

Ok my project is a 1985 Deckel FP3NC with a Dialog 3 control. So far I am very impressed with this machine, if not only for the manual machining value that it has. I managed to fit a 5 jaw chuck to it, which we use for drilling and small lathe type operations, and I am excited to see its full potential. Of course we will also use it for milling.

The MAIN problem that I am having is that I don't have an operators manual and I cannot find the right one anywhere. I have one for a Dialog 5 however there are differences that I have noticed, such as my Dialog 3 does not have a % button. Anyway, I cannot get the CNC function to work and I am not sure if I just don't know what sequence of buttons to push, or if it is broken. I have the function switch turned to position 11 and have entered a simple g code program to test it but I do not know how to initiate the program. What am I doing wrong???

To power it up I used a 20 hp rotary phase converter from American Rotary with circuitry that stabilizes power spikes. So far I am very pleased with it.

After I paid for this machine and went to pick it up I was disappointed to find the machine tipped over to its front side. Why they let a bunch of high school kids use a forklift to move my machine I will never know! The milling area containing box was bent, and the machine was resting on the vertical spindle. The plastic housing was busted, and I just found out that the spindle is slightly bent.

Also, in my quest to find batteries I found this switch all taped up inside. Does anybody have any idea what it is?

When jogging the x axis rapidly the machine will make a horrible chattering noise. Most times it will trip the machines safety stop. Any idea of how to remedy this?


I went about replacing all of the batteries like was done on this thread

1. Replaced the battery directly under the control with 6 1.2 Ni-CD batteries equaling 7.2V.

2. Replaced the battery that was soldered to a circuit board in the back of the control with 3 B cell Ni-MH batteries equaling 3.6V.

3. Replaced the battery on the circuit board in the electric cabinet with 3 B cell Ni-MH batteries equaling 3.6V.

4. I fired up the machine and all of the same problems were there. Manual works but no CNC. I can enter a program in mode 11 but I cannot get it to save or execute. When I go to mode 13 there are no programs that are saved. Modes 7 - 10 don't do anything at all. I let it sit with power for more than one hour to charge the batteries.

So upon a more complete inspection I found what seems to be a blown power board of some sort in the back of the electrical cabinet. . Does anyone have any leads on a replacement circuit board? Also I tested the voltage of the batteries I have hooked up and all were fine expect the batteries in the back of the control cabinet, which produced 0.55. I let it charge again and got 0.79V, leading me to believe that it is slowly charging.

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Removal of FP2NC Z Axis Gibs

July 3, 2015, 11:45 am

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Now that I have machining done for my two main projects, its a good time to address a few problems on the FP2NC. First I would like to remove and inspect the Z-Axis gibs. Objective is to correct the table sag.

Some questions:

I was thinking of using some diagonal blocking to force the saddle up against the column while the gibs are off and while they are being re-fitted.

The enclosure back panels need to be slid out of the way, but I think the rest of the enclosure can remain.

How does the operator's side gib come out? The gib bottom is hidden behind a green cover. I've removed the front screws holding on the cover, but it is still held in place. It looks like the assembly with the Z axis optical scale reader head can be loosened then slid out of the way (after detaching the grey wiring bundles, and probably some additional disassembly, hopefully not involving removing oil lines). If so, then I think the knee should be raised almost to the top, so the reader head assembly can be slid down, but I'm open to suggestions.

When the gibs are refitted, is there any means of adjustment provided, or grind to fit? Is turcite a good option for the gib sliding surface?

-Dave

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Abene VHF3 Universal Table- Disassembly?

July 3, 2015, 12:20 pm

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Howdy Folks,

Decided to give the Abene VHF3-UBS (universal table and quill) I picked up over the winter a teardown so I can make sure all of the lubrication points are clear and flowing, but it seems the parts manual I have skips over the universal part of the table. The main table came off easy enough and looks like the saddle will too, but there's nothing obvious for the universal bit. Before I start randomly unscrewing things, I don't suppose anyone has pointers for taking it apart?

Just so it's clear, I'm talking about removing the rotating bit from the rest of the saddle.



Thx.

A trip to Switzerland

July 6, 2015, 11:50 pm

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I just returned from a holiday in Switzerland, which my dad took me on for my 20th birthday present :)
While I was there we visited Luthy, Muller and their Machine museum and the Tornos museum. I have to say that Swiss workshops are so much better organised than my workplace, If I could speak French or German I would never leave :(

So here at some photos





Aciera F5 anyone

Dialog3 Tool Compensation Contour Length Radius

July 7, 2015, 10:47 am

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I have tried to make this thread title detailed enough to be easily found in a search........... Because I've tried.

Trying to get to the bottom of Tool Compensation and Compensation on Contour in Dialog3.

The manual I have talks about storing length comps in chapter 6 (pg.6-28) as well as contour radius compensation on pg 6-31.
Chapter 7 shows how to enter the comp values. Each tool location will only accept one compensation value, but the manual comments on pg.7-9 to remember to only use positive values for radius compensation on contour.

Are the length and radius compensation values for a single tool stored as two different locations? e.g. D5 would store +1.1mm (length) and D55 would store +2.5mm (radius)

Can anyone detail just how one can use both length and radius compensation in Dialog3.

Maho Spiral Milling unit - mounted on MH 600

July 7, 2015, 4:15 pm

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I’ve been pretty quite on what I’m up to with the spiral milling unit. Making up the change gears took a bit of time, but so did installing and setting up the actual unit. Simply slapping the unit onto the mounting face, resulted in the driving shaft not lining up. I ended up making stepped keys, and shimming the table out (so then needed to make up longer bolts). It sort of went on, and on – one more thing (since this is my only working mill, the tables were probably swapped on/off ~6 times). Anyway, it all seems to travel smoothly, both ratios on the head click right in. Very cool. Whether it will ever get used is another story (which I’ll post if that ever happens). Anyway, now it is not just another “boat anchor”.

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FP2 shear pin and Y-axis crash

July 9, 2015, 3:25 pm

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I should avoid going into the shop late in the evening....

A half hour ago, I ran the Y axis ram of my 1964 FP2 into the back of the vise, with some combination of the rapid and an 80mm/min feed. I had expected that in this situation the feed shear-pin would break and protect things, but it didn't.

The damage seems limited, but the L-bracket attached to the rear end of the Y-axis lead-screw is no longer 90 degrees :angry:. I'll have to pull off the ram to fix it properly. The Y lead-screw is no longer straight, but I'm pretty sure that's because of stress from the bent bracket, and the lead screw will spring straight again when I remove it.

When I got the machine, this same bracket was bent and I needed to bring it back to square and shim it. Now it looks like I'll have to do that again.

The shear-pin in my machine is an original Deckel part. Should it have snapped and prevented this damage?

Bruce

Deckel FP1 Work Light Question

July 11, 2015, 10:25 am

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Heidi came with this work light. I would like to find another for Helga. Is this a Deckel product or and "after market" add on?



Do any of you have one stashed away that I can trade you some cash for???

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Dialog 4 File Upload Question

July 13, 2015, 8:52 am

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When you upload a text file to the control (Mode 14), do the feed commands need decimal points? I was getting corrupt blocks when feeds had no decimals, but I did not have a chance to fix the post and try again with decimals. Fusion 360 outputs F20, even if I tell the CAM the feed should be F20.0. Fusion 360 outputs F20.1 if I tell it the feed rate should be F20.1. It likes to throw away the trailing decimal and digit if the digit is 0.

I tried baud rates from 9600 to 1200 and got the same corruption regardless, so i don't think the problem is with garbled characters during transfer.

Aside: You gotta love the horizontal mode on the FPxNCs for working the ends of long parts. There's no way I could face the ends of 6-ft sticks of aluminum rectangular tube on a normal VMC without a right-angle head. Of course to do pieces much longer, I'd have to chop a hole in the side of my garage.

Deckel FP1 dividing head

July 14, 2015, 7:33 am

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Hi,
I have this deckel fp1 dividing head. It is SK40. I have a question about usage - it seems the draw bar is to long - I insert my SK40 tooling that I use on my mill and the draw bar will not completely tighten up - I have about 5mm play. Can I adjust the head? Do I need to add a special washer? Is this normal?



many thanks,
John

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What makes the helical clamps so special?

July 15, 2015, 4:51 pm

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I just picked up these clamps along with several other Deckel related things and wonder what makes people think they're so great. I see they are well made and a lot of thought went into them but the thought of one of our support businesses asking a hundred and fifty bucks for a pair is sobering. To me they look like a careless machinist could easily jack out a T slot or something as complicated as they are. In comparison the clamps holding my vise down are simple and effective so what am I not seeing?
Dan

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GK21 components

July 15, 2015, 8:08 pm

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I am looking for a couple of parts for my early version of GK 21 duplicator. I am interested in finding a 3/8 collet, and also the arm that rides on the spindle with a couple of small rollers, to help stabilize the spindle while cutting. I have the tube with the spring in it, but I don't have the rod with the rollers on the end.
Thank you very much for your time and help. I am located in Southern California.

FP1 X axis lead screw same as FP2

July 18, 2015, 9:33 am

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Here's the scoop. I have the screw out of an FP1 cleaning it and considering ordering a replacement nut for it, has about .015" play in the assembly. I get to thinking, I have a brand new old stock FP2 screw and nut from probable first generation, for a machine with 400 MM travel. Both have 10 tpi leads so I pull it out and mic the OD of the threaded part, nearly identical within a thousands of an inch, slot width is the same except .005 less on depth, brand new nut screws on to the FP1 screw with no play although it is a little longer over all (about an inch).
My thought process tells me that I can turn and thread all the end (mounting features) to match the location and length on the FP1 screw and have a brand new one for that mill. I do realize that a lot of the features look as though they have been ground from the factory but I don't really know what other processes have been used as far as heat treatment, normalization, etc. although what I am thinking should not affect the accuracy of the screw one iota. My question is does anyone see any serious problem with stress risers or something of that nature created by turning that to fit. I think, if it works I would end up with an X axis screw with as new performance?

PS The bronze nut looks as if it can be reworked to suit the FP1 also.
Dan

Please identify this collet

July 20, 2015, 12:03 am

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Hi All,
I recently bought a small dividing head on UK fleabay and have stripped it down for inspection. There is one collet that came with it but there was no ID on the head and I don`t recognise the make of collet.
I believe that the head is of continental manufacture but the collet is imperial. there is a logo on the face of the collet, can anyone recognise the manufacturer?
Alan[ATTACH=CONFIG]144074

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Bosch servo setup fp4nc Siemens control

July 20, 2015, 6:21 pm

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Hello, I am looking for a better understanding of the servo setup on theses machines. To be specific how the the different setting relate to each other. DD has provided me with instructions on how to do the task but I am having issues with the final step of having the kv balance out. I will start by saying that the machine is running good and I don't seem to have any blatent issues with any of the axis. I did a cleaning of the tach on the y axis so I decided to check the setup on the board. When performing the setup the procedure calls for setting the offset first which went fine. The pot needed only slight turn to have my numbers to stay at 1-0s then I set my drift which also was only slight 1 and 2's. Then I proceeded to set the tacho pot. In the out line it says to set the pot while in 10% jog mode and adjust the tacho pot so setting 800, 801 and 802 all read the same at 400. I was able to do this part with very little adjustment as well. The final part of the procedure is to set the kv factor in the controls. This is where I am having issues. It says in the instructions to read theses values by jogging the axis in 100% rapids for about 6" in. This sets the kv values in the control. Specificly settings 850, 851 and 852. My kv factors do not balance, they are suppose to be all the same. My x and y balance but the z is out by about a 100. They are all suppose to be a 1000. So I checked my Bosch boards and happen to have a few extra boards so I swapped the Z and repeated the setup but no changes. I also refered to the Siemens service guide and it says to check the tach adj. So my question is if I adjust the tach in order to get the kv ballance right I would be putting parameter 803 out of balance. So can anyone explaine how theses settings all work together? Also can someone define what the kv factor is and how it works?

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Tramming the Y axis Ram

July 24, 2015, 8:51 am

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I have done some measuring as follows:

I mounted the mag base on the vertical head with the indicator touching a large parallel on the table and moved the Y axis. At the front of the table I get +.0025" (table is higher at the front).

I then repeated the above test but mounted the mag base on the Y axis ram to ensure it it wasn't something to do with the way the vertical head was mounted. I got the same result that the table is too high by 0.0025" at the front.

Since the table is too high at the front, my logic deduces that this means that the Y axis is not parallel to the table.

How do you adjust the machine for this type of misalignment? Do I need to tighten the Y axis gibs? I have a Mikron WF21c which is very similar to deckel fpXnc and maho 500e machines.

Would appreciate any help.

Deckel FP1 drain oil location

July 29, 2015, 3:46 am

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hi guys.
I recently cleaning and restoring one of these early FP1 and I wanted to change all the oils in the gears box but wouldn't find the location of the drain . can any one here know where it is on the early FP1 ? mine machine is two levers speed change version.
Thanks
Peter

Deckel FP4 A with Hurco electronics

July 30, 2015, 8:20 pm

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Stumbled across this machine a few days ago. I'm interested in purchasing it as the price seems reasonable but wanted some input form you deckel guys. Machine is an FP4 A but with USA electronics. It has a Hurco Ultramax II CNC control complete Hurco 2 part screen and Ultimax disk option. Drive motors are Kollmorgan, The electrical cabinet is slick as a whistle, like new. Machine has coolant shields and looks in excellent condition, a little surface rust from sitting. The only thing wrong according to the owner is that it has one or two(?) blown capacitors and that is why it won't run. The mounting location spot for the capacitor (s) has a smudge spot of soot where the capacitor (s) used to be. I don't think it has had much use as it spent it's life in the research section machine shop of a large company. What would you guys pay for this? Any thoughts on what else if anything could be wrong? Any other thought or comment would be welcome. O'h, it also has the multi angle table. Thanks !

Retrofit of my 1978 Deckel E3 (basically one of the first NC FP3's)

July 31, 2015, 11:02 am

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Hello everybody,

I'm Markus, 49 yrs and from Germany.

Some weeks ago I had the Idea to replace my small china mill - an CNC controlled 'Optimum BF' 20 with something bigger - preferably a Deckel FP.

I have had the short chance to practice on a FP2 some 30 years ago - so my wish to own one accompanied me half my life.
But - as everyone here knows - those machines usually are far from affordable. At least for me.

Incidentally several days later I stumbled upon an electrically defect FP on Ebay at a price I just couldnt say no. Exact type was not mentioned, I did a quick research on the net and hit' the 'buy it now' button.

So I ended up with this 1.5 ton piece - 300 miles from my home:





First I thought it was an FP4 - but I learned I had picked a rare 'E3' with 'E1003' Weinlich control from 1978.
So I - Deckel rookie and blindest of blind hens - have been so lucky to pick a machine with stepper motors and ballscrews on all three axles. Sigh.

Last week I picked it up on a rented 3to car trailer:








I unloaded it mith my pallet truck (not without denting the trailer - sigh :-( ), but nevertheless the mill ended up in my garage.


Here a picture of the stepper motors with encoders (at least I guess so):





Vogel lube pump:





Nixies were state of the art back then :-) :





70s style control:








inside - capacitors sized like beercans:





160V transformer (power supply for the steppers) weighs at least 80 pounds :-) :





the giant stepper amplifiers:





cards, cards, cards... imagine my rolling eyes when I saw this first time.





there are virtually inches of space between the conducting paths. Let the good ol' times roll...:





On the left hand side the Vogel lube timer - only thing I'd miss when the cabinet will be gone:








see the tube type socket ? Tubes weren't long gone by then.





huge Resistors:

Retrofit of my 1978 Deckel E3 (basically one of the first NC FP3's)

July 31, 2015, 11:02 am

≫ Next: Bringing A Machine Over From Germany

≪ Previous: Retrofit of my 1978 Deckel E3 (basically one of the first NC FP3's)

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Hello everybody,

I'm Markus, 49 yrs and from Germany.

Some weeks ago I had the Idea to replace my small china mill - an CNC controlled 'Optimum BF' 20 with something bigger - preferably a Deckel FP.

I have had the short chance to practice on a FP2 some 30 years ago - so my wish to own one accompanied me half my life.
But - as everyone here knows - those machines usually are far from affordable. At least for me.

Incidentally several days later I stumbled upon an electrically defect FP on Ebay at a price I just couldnt say no. Exact type was not mentioned, I did a quick research on the net and hit' the 'buy it now' button.

So I ended up with this 1.5 ton piece - 300 miles from my home:





First I thought it was an FP4 - but I learned I had picked a rare 'E3' with 'E1003' Weinlich control from 1978.
So I - Deckel rookie and blindest of blind hens - have been so lucky to pick a machine with stepper motors and ballscrews on all three axles. Sigh.

Last week I picked it up on a rented 3to car trailer:








I unloaded it mith my pallet truck (not without denting the trailer - sigh :-( ), but nevertheless the mill ended up in my garage.


Here a picture of the stepper motors with encoders (at least I guess so):





Vogel lube pump:





Nixies were state of the art back then :-) :





70s style control:








inside - capacitors sized like beercans:





160V transformer (power supply for the steppers) weighs at least 80 pounds :-) :





the giant stepper amplifiers:





cards, cards, cards... imagine my rolling eyes when I saw this first time.





there are virtually inches of space between the conducting paths. Let the good ol' times roll...:





On the left hand side the Vogel lube timer - only thing I'd miss when the cabinet will be gone:








see the tube type socket ? Tubes weren't long gone by then.





huge Resistors: