Replacing the FP! X axis slow feed gears

March 17, 2017, 1:46 am

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Hi All,

I`ve been putting off rebuilding Helga`s X axis slow feed assembly for a long time now! The reason for this procrastination (lovely word) is that in removing the damaged gears that were jammed in position, partly due to my lack of knowledge, the small driving gear was badly mauled and the bronze bearing that supports this gear had to be driven down to allow removal of the side gears so that I lost the settings!



Above you can see the damaged gears sitting in that cramped little pocket in the casting!



Above you can see the damaged gear just prior to being removed from the shaft. You can see the bronze bearing and the hardened steel thrust washer as well below the gear but pushed further down to allow dis-assembly.



Above you can see the damage to the gear and the shaft. What had happened was that the gear had revolved on the shaft about 360 degrees, shearing the taper pin so that driving out the pin was not possible. this could not be seen from just looking at the gear and it was not loose on the shaft as the shearing of the pin had the effect of packing the removed metal against the bore of the gear and jamming it together with the shaft it took a very long time, working in that tight space, to extract the gear from the shaft and it was only then that I was able to see what had happened!



Above can be seen the status of the end of the drive shaft. A large amount of metal has been removed and I set the shaft up in the 4 jaw to remove the expanded metal in the centre of the gear mounting diameter. there is a portion of the original diameter left where the bottom of the gear is situated and also around the shaft where the top of the gear is located so that the new gear will run true with the shaft.
The painful decision that I have to make is whether to risk pinning the gear through what is left of the shaft in that area!

Alan

Attached Thumbnails

       

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Deckel LK manual?

March 20, 2017, 8:41 am

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Did Deckel put out a parts and repair manual (and wiring diagram!) for their LKB/S machine similar to the one for FP2? And does anyone have one in English?

And big thanks to the Wisconsin PM-er who kept parts from his scrapper LK to help me restart my long delayed rebuild!

Regards,
Lucky7

Mikron WF41 C mill

March 21, 2017, 12:50 pm

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Hello, first time poster here.

I've been looking for operation and maintenance manual for this machine, but having zero luck finding anything useful at all.

I very recently acquired such machine in a non-working condition (was bought via an auction house, so basically zero operational history) as a first more or less serious milling machine for my home shop, and now am starting to gather more info about it to begin the troubleshooting process or even upgrading to a more modern motion control.

Has anyone any experience with this model, typical problems, or things I should check first? And a source for manuals for this machine would be very helpful.

thanks, J

Deckel FP5CC/T error code 2302

March 23, 2017, 8:14 am

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Hi guys, i have recently purchased a Deckel FP5CC/T but experiencing a few error codes upon starting it. Does anyone have a PDF copy to help me with the error codes. When i started the machine i kept on getting error code 2302 Emergency Stop and dont know what it means or how to get rid. :crazy::crazy:

Thanks

Another FP Activ vertical spindle "rebuild" with humorous twist....

March 23, 2017, 12:07 pm

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This time the FP3 that is already sold....but not shipped yet and noticed that if run at top RPM for ten minutes or more, while it runs quiet enough it becomes progressively more difficult to move the quill in the head. Which is quite curious as it seems so smooth and quiet and doesn't seem overly warm to the touch.

So yesterday I said what the heck, and take it out and apart anyway. It was smooth as silk and with no sound (tuning by hand) but it did seem like it didn't spin freely enough, so figured it either had some preload on the thrust bearings, had too much grease, or the wrong kind of grease.

What I found was sure enough some preload on the trust bearings, the grease amount was about right but black as the ace of spaces and therefore must not be Kluber. So I cleaned it all up with carb spray, both needle and thrust bearings appeared and felt absolutey as new and applied Kluber.. One other surprise is that the lower thrust bearing was upside down ! The spacer/washer with the grooved race, should be the closest to the end of the spindle but this one has the all flat spacer in that position. So I'm thinking, ahah, maybe that's it.

So I get it all back together, this time with thrust bearings oriented correctly, and it moves and sounds beautifully, like a brand new spindle.

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Re install it in the head, turn it on 500 rpm, works great, stop it, turn it 1000 rpm and within 3 seconds it seizes up !!!! (V belt slipping, shut 'er down)

A major WTF ? on that one...I even imagine things like perhaps that thrust bearing was upside down for a reason....but I get the spindle back out and it still turns beautifully. Then I realized the culprit has to be the big bevel gear's thrust bearing must have seized some how....but how, and why now of all times ?

Took the top apart and immediately saw the problem....the split threaded collar that one uses to put the light preload on that gears thrust bearings...it's clamping screw was loose ! That apparently allowed that collar to thread itself too tight against the gear's thrust bearings, thus the seize up. Apparently just the act of removing and reinstalling the spindle was enough to be the "straw that broke the camels back" in that regards and it seized it.

Once the collar was knocked unthreaded a bit, all was well. but while I was to that point I took the bearing apart to see if there was any damage. To my surprise it looked pristine as new.....but there was not one hint of grease or oil in the thing....dry as a bone. So, I Klubered it, put it back together with light preload, made sure the collar screw was tight, reinstalled the spindle....and viola, now it can run at 2500 RPM indefinitely and the quill moves just fine, temp barely above room temp.

Bottom line is the humor is that here I was trying to make something better, that was already ok, just not perfect...but somehow made it infinitely worse with the seize up.

But the reality is I did make things better....only the real problem was not where I thought it was...problem was in the bevel gear bearing preload (and lack of lubricant), not the spindle.....although at least now I know the spindle is better too.

Plus it's a good thing the problem happened on my "watch" as it would be a major WTF ? if it happened soon after the new owner took possession of the machine.

Turnkey pickup, crating, delivery from Switzerland to the US

March 24, 2017, 1:50 pm

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I have discovered an item in Switzerland that I covet. I believe the item is in a residence, and not in a factory, warehouse or retail outlet. Is there a service that will pickup, crate, and ship to the US something in the 1,500 (700 KG) pound category? There is one large item, maybe 1000 pounds, and lots of dodads that likely add up to ?500 lbs. Should it all be shipped together or in two separate containers to keep things from banging around? Is this something that I need to be there for to make sure it is done right, or can they be relied on? (I think the answer is that I want to / should be there, but hoping that No, someone can be relied on to do something right, but I want your input.) For something this heavy and kind of large, should it go by air or sea?

Are there things I should know about shipping stuff out of Switzerland before doing it, like the Swiss don't allow machine tools to be exported, import / export duties are ruinous, etc.? I believe the item is likely 20-30 years old, so not an antique. The item value is about $5000 USD, so enough to attract the notice of customs people for purposes of tariffs.

I made a few calls, and got answers like google it, etc., which I view as non-helpful

How unique is the Deckel method of clamping a quill ?

March 26, 2017, 5:21 am

≫ Next: Wanted: Aciera F5 electrical diagram

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See my post no. 24 here- http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...02/index2.html

The first drawing, lower right. Did only Deckel do this or is the design pretty common in reality ?

(and FWIW, I didn't notice pins 5 x 24 Din 7 on my quill keyway clamp and frankly not sure why they are showing in this drawing as I can't imagine what purpose they would serve, unless it is simply to affix the spreading keyway "fingers" part to the larger round part to manufacture the mechanism in two sections instead of one)

I only mention this as it seems like the ideal solution to do what this does... and wondering if only Deckel got it right, or perhaps it is pretty common.

Wanted: Aciera F5 electrical diagram

March 26, 2017, 4:48 pm

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I was running the feeds back and forth checking alignments when the machine just died. Only the feed motor was running at the time. It appears to be a problem with the main logic relay. I verified that I have all three phases present, and that all the motors run when I activate the contactors manually. The fuses for the 48-V logic and 24-V lamp supply appear good. My next step is to check out the two logic relays that I can see. The problem is that the wiring labels are hard to read because they are buried at one end or the other. So, before I disconnect relays, I'd like some idea of what the relays are doing.

In all my years of owning and following Aciera F2, F4 and F5 mills, I have never ever encountered a wiring diagram. The manual has nothing. Do diagrams exist? An F4 diagram won't help, because it really has no relay logic. The F5 has various interlocks that the F4 does not, such as an E-stop if one tries to move the vertical head support arm from the resting position, or if one tries to activate the spindle lock (although the switch in the transmission did not seem to activate the logic when I tested it this morning - maybe that's part of the story?). There are no labels on the transmission switch wires, hence the desire for a wiring diagram.

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Abene oil in the US (again)

March 27, 2017, 3:40 pm

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I was trying to get the right stuff and ordered Shell Tellus S2 MX 100 for my Abene VHF-3 from the one company in the US that seemed to be able to supply it in reasonable quantities. I waited five weeks, at which point they silently issued me a refund - I guess they can't get it after all.

Can someone help me decode what this stuff is? What do other people in the US use?

Shell says:
Viscosity Index (ISO 2909) 105
Kinematic Viscosity @40C cSt (ASTM D445) 100

Is it actually 100 weight hydraulic oil? I think I remember that most generic hydraulic oil is somewhere in the low/mid 30's.

I went through a bunch of cross-reference material and wound up more confused than when I started without finding anything else I could get in the US.

I'm ready to put a straight 30W non-detergent fleet diesel oil in and call it good, but I'd rather use the right thing if I can figure out what it is.

I've had an electric fuel pump circulating paint thinner through the gearboxes to clean them out, but I actually need to use the mill now so it's oil time.

replacing zerks in old model aciera F4

March 28, 2017, 5:12 pm

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Has anyone done this? I'd like to replace the zerks on my aciera with more modern ones made for a grease gun ---- unfortunately there's no flats on mine, so it looks like removing them may destroy the housing (they are really stuck on).

Does anyone know if these just unscrew? (And, what the threads are if they do so I can pre-order some zerks)?

Thanks!

Decoding Deckel

March 28, 2017, 5:21 pm

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I've been looking over on various European used equipment sites and there are a bewildering number of Deckel models. I'm finding this a bit confusing as there are so many models.

Besides the basics in terms of model line up,

FP1
FP2
FP3
FP33
FP4
FP5,

there are the innumerable additional letters after certain model designations.

I realize that '~M' likely means Manual control, while '~NC', means 'Numeric Control', but what about:

~A
~A/T
~MA
~L ("Long"?)
~V
~H
~LB
~LV
~Aktiv
~HT

There are likely more suffixes than I have listed above. What do they mean? It would be great if there was some kind of wiki breaking the models and their years of production, capacities, etc. down in some kind of list.

And how come there are FP2 and FP3 models with moving tables, and other FP2 and FP3 models in which the table is fixed and the head moves? Did they offer both kinds at the same time, or is one type a later version than the other?

clean aciera f1 on ebay

March 30, 2017, 5:14 am

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priced expensively, but it does look clean:

Aciera F-1 Swiss Watchmakers Mill | eBay

For what it's worth, I bought a hauser jig borer off of the seller and was pretty happy with it. (He also came down a bunch on a best offer, perhaps that applies to other cases too!) Seems to be a eastern european guy that goes around finding european stuff for sale at schools, etc.

FP1 Rotary Table Suggestions

March 12, 2017, 6:52 pm

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Hi everyone. I don't have a specific job that requires a rotary table. I was wondering if there is a specific size or model that fits the FP1. Sorry if this is very unspecific, I am sure there are many tables that fit the FP1. Just trying to narrow down my search.

Wohlhaupter UPA1, bits needed

April 1, 2017, 8:30 am

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I just bought this on Ebay. It's in great shape because it was so full of fossilized grease that nothing moved, so probably was never used in the past 30 years. I followed these nice instructions http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...g-head-302945/ and this step-by-step (attached PDF file shows reassembly, just reverse in time to take apart) to take it apart, clean out the old grease, and relubricate:
forum.zerspanungsbude.net • Thema anzeigen - Wohlhaupter UPA 3 zerlegt - Zusammenbauanleitung als PDF.










and it was easy to get it working smoothly again. I need to make a pair of the end-stops, which look like this (from a UPA3):



Could someone with a UPA1 take a few measurements for me, so I can reproduce these end stops?

Cheers,
Bruce

Abene VHF light bulb part number?

April 2, 2017, 6:54 pm

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The worklight bulb died on my abene mill. Its got the standard factory work light. The bulb looks like an industrial version of a turn signal bulb. I see 30 volts across the pins. Mine says "USA" but I see no part number. Anyone know what the part # is?

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Deckel FP1 S/N 28564

April 3, 2017, 4:56 am

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As announced (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...63/index3.html), the machine finally arrived.

Feels like birthday and x-mas in one!




Principally everything is ok,
runs in all gears,
as well as in all power feeds.
Backlash on all axes is well below a quarter turn.
Oil is everywhere were it should be.

So far, only disassembly and cleaning is on the agenda.

Will provide regular updates on progress with photos. These hopefully are of help to others sailing the same waters in the future.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Alexander 3A 3D weight

April 3, 2017, 10:39 am

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Because of a dispute with a shipper, I have to get a weight measurement for an Alexander 3A 3D Pantograph standard configuration. I have searched but only found a specifications document indication "approximately" 1000 lbs. It seems I may need more specific than that. I cannot weigh it myself.

Would very much appreciate if anyone has a record of weight or maybe even a shipping weight when you have sent or received one.

Thanks much.

Mike L.

GK21 motor speed control OK?

April 7, 2017, 3:47 pm

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I was looking around for a motor converter for my GK21, to go from single phase 230 V to three phase 230V. I noticed Fuji controllers at Dealerselectric.com; the model I saw was Fuji, FVR0.4S1S-7E. It also offers the option of speed control,but specifically has a disclaimer about synchronous motors. So here is the question, is the original Siemens-Schuckert Deckel motor synchronous or induction? Has anyone tried speed control? The machine has several pulley options so speed control is not critical but would be a nice feature.

Dan

Mixed errors 08, 09, 10: are they symptoms of DA-breakdown in FP2NC? (Video)

April 9, 2017, 12:00 pm

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Greetings from Sweden where (finally) spring has come.

I keep getting error 08, 09, 10 while "booting" my new to me FP2NC. These "Lageregelung" errors are from what I can gather following errors.

My situation is this:

- I boot the machine with the three-phase breaker.

- If I boot it at mode 10 up to 16, there will be no error.

- If I then push the start button (flash icon), the machinery swirls a bit, and I get error 08, 09 or 10

- Under no circumstances do the LEDs on NRP53 or NPP53 light up.

- The four LEDs on the NSV card are lit.

- If I try to swith to mode 9 or below, the machine immediately goes to error 70.

Has anyone had similar errors and traced the cause?




Some people have talked about the DA-converter HS9338 earlier.

As I understand it, this DA-converter is used to produce the "sollwerts" for the servo amplifiers. Judging from the schematic, it cycles through the outputs and the "sollwert" is buffered by a capacitor until next update.

Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks.

/Hans

aciera f4 power (off/on) light model?

April 10, 2017, 10:39 pm

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I need to replace the "power on" light for an old-model aciera f4. Does anyone know where to get one?

Mine says 250-260v with two pins sticking out from the sides. I can't seem to find a suitable replacement at MSC/mcmaster, but perhaps I'm not searching correctly.

Thanks!