Deckel FP4A Dialog 11 selftest problem

December 27, 2018, 5:35 am

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Hi everyone
I'm new here so sorry for any mistakes and my English also.
Recently I bought Deckel FP4A with Dialog 11.
Machine is in good condition but there is a one (or maybe more) problem with it.
When i try to turn it on very often there is problem with completing selftest. Below there are photos of what is display on a screen and what happened in cabinet.
1. 2181212_18572.jpg - Google Drive
2. 2181214_8329.jpg - Google Drive
3. 2181214_8341.jpg - Google Drive

After several times and some gently "pushes" into wires and cards (not sure that it helps but) it finally starts (sometimes it can turn on by first time). And everything is fine.

After let's say hour of work, hydraulics stops and i can see something like this:
4. 2181224_131545.jpg - Google Drive

Not responding, have to turn if off and on again.

And here is first question: any idea what reason could be?
And second thing is - cards on right- what exactly it is? Is that normal that when machine is working fine (until stop) on three card there are no led on and last one got 4 red and no green?
5. 2181214_8341.jpg - Google Drive

There was one single time that i notice that it was all green:
6. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n4L...w?usp=drivesdk

Enyone had problem like this?

(There is folder with couple pictures of that cards and cabinet:
7. https://drive.google.com/folderview?...HAkUC9RFM7gge2 )

I'm sorry if i wrote something wrong- please notice me.

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Fritz Werner (Mann) Horizontal Mill

December 28, 2018, 9:22 am

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Hi all,

Any of you who also frequent the antique machines board may have seen my thread over there where I was helped to identify a mystery "Mann" milling machine, which turned out to be a size 3 Fritz Werner, though with some odd details and no plate/casting/any official sign that it was made by Fritz (other than the fact that that's clearly what it is).

Have had a quick search and it appears that this is the sub board most suited to these machines, though they aren't explicitly mentioned, so hopefully it'll be welcome here.

I'm intending to post pictures as I delve deeper into what is currently a machine in a very sorry state and attemp to ascertain whether or not it is even worth refurbishing.

As always if anyone has any literature or a positive ID on my machine please let me know, for the moment here's a recap of what I've discovered.

6 months ago machine arrives home looking like this:



No identification available other than this plate:



No reference to "Mann" as a manufaturer of machine tools anywhere on the internet, machine sheeted over for 6 months while I crack on with other projects.

Enter the good people of PM forum who point out that George Mann was an english manufacturer of printing equipment. A quick google turns up images of this printing press (amongst others) which bear the same "Mann" logo:



It is also correctly pointed out that the machine appears to be a badge engineered Werner mill, possibly sold as semi finished to Mann's in England in the 50s as part of a war reparation deal (one theory at least).

It appears to be a universal model, with the swinging table, very similar to this:



Have been stripping down the machine today, achieved some success freeing up parts such as the y and z axis, but the main rotating parts are not yet willing to budge.

If anyone is familiar with the control layout of the machine this would also be helpful.

Shall gather some more pictures (and no doubt have some more questions) tomorrow!

Mike

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Uh oh, Dialog 4 funky screen display on cold start and bad electrical noise

December 29, 2018, 10:29 am

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I turned on my FP2NC this morning to warm up and now I see this screen.
The start button is non-responsive. When I cycled the power, I got bad noise from the transformer and huge current draw through the PhasePerfect. I turned it off before something blew up, because it sure sounded like it was going to. $&@@%#%

Two days ago I had to do the K10 connector reboot. I hope this is just a reaction to cold weather. Not likely, given the bad sounds. It’s probably the coldest day of the year, but upper 50s in the shop.


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Heidenhain VRZ 740 dro

December 31, 2018, 9:36 am

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Hi dear I'm writing first time in this site recently I purchased decekel lkd with digital readout (Heidenhain).both X & Y display double of reading.means machine scale display 1.0 mm and Dro display 2.0 mm just double of displacement.plz you have any solution then plz share. thanks in advance.
Davesingh.

DECKEL factory drawing

January 1, 2019, 8:33 am

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I looks like Deckel factory drawings turn up once in a while, see this German Ebay listing. It appears to be an assembly drawing for a vise (I think I have this one!). Interesting,it is dated October, 1940 and signed off in 1944, I would have thought German manufacturing had other things to do at that time than design vises.

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Deckel Dialog 11 FP50CC/T SPS error code on startup

January 2, 2019, 10:46 am

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After reading a few of the other SPS errors, I am likely looking for a reply from Malicron saying I should buy a second Dialog 11 for spare parts. I just have the fourth from the end card with a red error light.


The batteries were changed and are at 3.7VDC and the machine has been power cycled more than once. There is only one battery pack on the machine which are two wires extending out of the NSV case. I have the parameter files on a CD and backed up a few other places.


My current course of action is to take everything apart, clean everything again, and put it back together unless someone has a better idea of what I can do to fix this. It is possible that the battery wire disconnected from the right most main board, but highly unlikely. I will look at that when I take the boards out.

This fault happened between December 20th and December 24th. There were no power surges nor interrupts during that period. My guess is some cap ageing, a small piece of dirt, or something due to it getting cold.

I am up in Southern Ontario btw.

Pantograph Deckel Mill?

January 2, 2019, 2:10 pm

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I was wondering if I could reproduce a CZ-75,FN FNC, Swiss Arms PE-90 ,and a FN FAL on a manual Pantograph Deckel Mill? I am looking to reproduce these guns as projects ,because they are rare in the USA ,and they are hard to find parts for.

Deckel Dialog 4 Monitor vertical deflection dead

January 4, 2019, 11:43 pm

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Hello everyone,

seems like the new year brings me new Problems :(

After starting up my FP2NC yesterday morning the CRT just shows a line.

This is one of these unexpected overnight problems...
The line "matches" the set machine mode and I can jog the Axis, run the Spindle and change Tool.

For me this indicated a failure of the CRT itself or a bad CRT controller board.
I ruled the CRT out, using a cheapo DSO Oscilloskope. There was no measurable Signal on the vertical deflection grid.

According to the schematic of the NDM51 Board the vertical deflection is controlled by a single TDA1170 chip with a ELCO in the output signal line.

I will now change the TDA and some of the electrolytic caps on the board.
If this measures doesn't work, I probably will have to bite the bullet and buy a replacement NPM51 Board or swap out TFT...
Has anyone of you run into similar problems?
Is my assumption with the broken parts right?

Kind regards,

Markus

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Quick few questions...

January 7, 2019, 5:46 am

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Sorry for questions, I searched and couldn't really find good answers, but:

1. This motor isn't the normal one I'm used to seeing, can I power this off my RPC? It does say 60hz, which makes me think I can, but I don't want to burn it up.

2. Is this piece missing anything? I seems pretty stocky and the dial at the top which sets depth, is locked somehow.

3. Is this piece that provides belt tension missing anything?

Thank you.

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Deckel Table Allignment

January 7, 2019, 11:38 pm

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For my soon to arrive FPS 300 M (Deckel FP1) I'm wondering about how to align tables. In viewing various photos, it seems like there are two rows of t-slots on the FP1 vertical face, and that the tables have an allignment scheme that catches along the top t-slot, and there are two holes for attaching t-slot bolts along the bottom row.

My question: how accurate are the allignment setups on the tables, can one just set the table alligned to the top t-slot or is there a lot of fiddling required to get the table trammed properly?

Or more simply: when changing FP1 table, how does one get it alligned properly?

Fehlmann Picomax 51 CNC 2, reference info, pictures

January 10, 2019, 3:17 pm

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Since the other topic was about the manual version - the P50, I thought it would be more appropriate to make a separate topic for this version of the machine, since there are quite a few differences, idea of the thread is to provide some reference material since there seems to be not much about these machines on the web

History of the particular machine, I bought it from an auction in Switzerland, just on a whim, out of curiosity more than a need (and because Milacron praised the quill of the P50 so high :D ), auction pics:


Fehlmann support were gracious enough to send me users manuals for the P51 and the TNC155P, and they also were able to provide me with machine parameters for the TNC, all of which are available here:
Fehlmann P51-CNC2 operators manual
Heidenhain TNC155 operators manual
machine parameters file

The machine has 2 CNC controlled axis (X and Y, feedback via glass scales - Heidenhain LS 903), quill has a digital readout only (via a rotary encoder Heidenhain ROD 456 5000ppr), but has the normal automatic feed modes (coarse and fine, 3 feeds each, min 0,02mm/rev, max 0,30mm/rev), "milling mode" with a fine feed hand wheel on the left side of the spindle housing, and screw thread tapping mode with spindle reversal

After some troubleshooting, mainly caused by me not wiring the 3 phase rotation correctly, and making sure everything on the machine works, it was time to take it apart for cleanup, in the next picture you can see why... X axis slide removed:

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Aciera F4: What oil to use??

January 13, 2019, 3:25 pm

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Very shortly I am going to try to get my round head f4 running.
When I got it all the gearboxes were empty.
The only info I have on lubrication is from the later model handbook.
DTE iso68 hydraulic oil is readily available, but DTE iso150 is not so common.

Anyone have any comment on what they are running in their machines?

Thanks
Peter

Help identifying small XY table

January 13, 2019, 5:52 pm

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Hi everyone, apologies if this is an obvious one, it's 41 degrees C in my shop right now.

With my aciera F5 came this tiny XY table, I think it's Aciera made but can't be sure as it has no brand at all. 50mm travel on each side on zero on each axis and lovely removable ball handles. Total table size is 175 X 175 mm

The place it came had no other Swiss or European equipment. Could this belong to an aciera drill, has anyone seen one before?

It came in a nice box and seemingly some stuff is missing, I don't have whatever fills the LH spots.

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Deckel fp1 aktiv - 1986

January 15, 2019, 4:58 am

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Hey I have just found a fp1 aktiv for sale. Is there something to look out for.... or is just to buy if the price is right.

Deckel FP 2 73mod

January 16, 2019, 1:27 pm

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Someone got manual for this machine, would be great.

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Internal Spiral Cutting

January 16, 2019, 8:04 pm

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In another thread I talked about the spindle speed reducer I picked up for my lathe in order to cut long lead spiral threads, both internal and external threads and nuts with a single rotation in 2" for example. Today I came across this german manual on ebay that seems to describe a way of cutting these threads on an FP1 with the spiral milling attachment. For the nut they appear to put a boring bar in the slotting head. I assume they disable the up and down motion somehow and then what? Advance the slotting head a few thousandth's with each pass? How would you do that with any control? Maybe I'm totally missing something here. Does anyone think this would work?

Deckel FP1 / FP2 Frasmaschine Beschreibung zur Innen - Spiralnuten zu Bearbeiten | eBay

Not great scans. Maybe one of the german speakers here can translate and explain what is going on.

What manual is this? I haven't seen this in any of my FP1 literature. I wish the price was a bit lower, I might buy it just to read this.

Dialog 11 FP50CC/T Milling Head Not In Base Position / Conic Lock error?

January 18, 2019, 12:58 pm

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I started a new thread here after getting the PLC back up and running. I found that one of the cards (I believe a memory card) was at fault and was replaced with a replacement PLC. I am now getting that card fixed, but found a new problem when uploading parameters.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...tartup-358883/

The machine, when we first got it, had an error code of Tool Changer Not In Base Position. We corrected that by disabling the tool changer and have been running the machine well for the last few years without it.

Now I can move the machine in XYZ, but not spin the spindle. The following errors are present:
- TC Not In Base Position
- Conic Lock (Tool) Must Be F Coded
- No Conic Lock In Tool Table
- Milling Head Not In Base Position

I can remove the TC error, but I have never heard of a Conic Lock.
As well, as a bonus, these is the Parameters I have. It has *.dat files, and the 28340104.dat is the parameter file we put into the machine before. We also have *.IO files which are the input/output for the machine. There are also *.Q32 and *.Z32 files. I am thinking that these may be EPROM programs, but I have no experience in that field.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yT...0Hiv5kJXa8LspK

I am looking to see if anyone else has come across these types of errors and/or ideas of what they mean or what I can do.

Aciera F4 handwheels

January 19, 2019, 6:25 pm

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My Aciera F4 has suffered some damage during it's lifetime. Among the bumped, bent, scratched and broken is the "Z" axis handwheel.
I only have pieces of what was on it, and I am not sure if that was original.

Would some one be able to tell me what size and material the original most probably was?

Some of the other handwheels on the machine are 170mm cast iron.
The Z "bits" I have seem to indicate that it was similar size but aluminum.

Thanks
Peter

W20 collet

January 21, 2019, 11:52 am

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Hello. I bought the used w20 collets.
I worry about whether their cone is original, or is it amateurly processed on a lathe?
I dont know how to put picture...
Biger diametar on conus is not ring,he is like UUU.

Deckel fp2 dialogue4 error

January 22, 2019, 5:34 am

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Can anyone help
I have recently got a deckel fp2 with a dialogue 4 controller. When I power up the error code fp0 appears on the screen. According to the manual this is an emergency stop error. I have checked all of the e stops and the three hand wheels and they are all functioning correctly.
Can anyone tell me if there is a board to inspect or what to look for next.
Thanks in advance
Derek