W20 mill tooling?

May 6, 2020, 4:25 am

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Hi all,

I recently bought my first mill - an Aciera F3. It's an absolute beauty and I love it.

However, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the most practical way to make use of the W20 spindle taper in the F3. I have a mostly-complete set of collets, but I suspect for many tools (e.g. face cutters, boring heads etc) a dedicated arbor would be better. But, I can't for the life of me find tools/arbors in W20.

Is there something I'm missing here? How does everyone else make the best use of a W20 spindle?

Cheers,
Hugh

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Early Schaublin 13 value?

May 6, 2020, 10:20 pm

≫ Next: FP1 Veritcal milling head lubrication

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Hello everybody,

I've been looking for a small mill for a while now, particularly of the Deckel style, and this Schaublin 13 came up near-ish to me. These mills are a unfamiliar to me, and despite reading all the threads I could find, actual numbers for prices are hard to find especially for the slightly more used examples.

Anyway here's the mill, seller is asking $2500. It looks like an older model, but it comes with the high speed milling head, and some collets as well. Seller says its wired for 3 phase 440V, which is problematic, but manageable. Hard to tell what the condition is really like under the dust and what is hopefully light surface rust. What do ya'll think a fair price is for something like this?

Also while I'm posting, is the high speed head capable of any serious milling, or is it meant mostly for drilling? I've heard a bit of both here.

Thanks for the help!

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FP1 Veritcal milling head lubrication

May 7, 2020, 3:25 am

≫ Next: Upgrading power feed FP1

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I have concerns about the lubrication of the vertical milling head , particularly the horizontal shaft gear which engages with the gear on the horizontal spindle.
If I am reading documentation correctly, the gear is lubricated with oil carried from the main gearbox on the gear of the horizontal spindle and to the upper drive gear. The oil level is correct on my FP1, by sight glass on left side of machine, but I feel the gears are dry when I recently removed the vertical milling head. I did find two wicks either side of the horizontal spindle housing but one was loose so perhaps this should be going somewhere. Incidentally, the housing was wet with oil just the gears felt dry.
Is my understanding of the lubrication mechanism correct and should I being checking or doing something to ensure better lubrication?

Thanks
ger

Upgrading power feed FP1

May 15, 2020, 2:18 am

≫ Next: Deckel Aktiv Feed Problem

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Hello all,

I've been trying to figure out how to upgrade the power feed on my Deckel FP1, I have a change gear feed model probably built year is around 1941-43. I received the mill without any accessories or change gears. Its been a year since I have the machine, it came with a rotating table attached with self made alu bracket. Meanwhile I found a original deckel tilt table assume-ably from later model but fits perfectly. Also introduced some tooling and stuff. This summer my main goal will be to strip the machine completely, remove the 80 years grease, clean, paint and finally update the power feed mechanism. I've seen many examples of other mills where people attached power feed to the handle with some sort of attachment. But this is not what I have in mind. I was thinking to modify the feed block in the photo below



with some timing belt power transmission, expand it to outside and place a AC motor with gear reduction which will be then controlled with a VFD and controller to introduce some rapid move features too. And I still want to be able to use the existing lever. I am not planning to use the oil pump for lubrication so I'll have the entire space there for my imagination.

I did not dig into details of how the feed mechanism currently works under the rails and stuff but I can't see a reason why this should not work.

Machine is a project and I am willing to keep it for good.

If there is anyone who tried or thought of the same thing, have some feedback or thinks it won't work please let me know. I am open to suggestions and discussions.

Machine was not treated well in recent years but all the moving mechanisms are in perfect shape. I'll update the post with recent photos of the machine later.

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Deckel Aktiv Feed Problem

May 16, 2020, 10:45 am

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I've been trying to sort through getting the DC feed drive hooked up for an Aktiv machine (FP3). I've got the feed drive engaging (turning on)- the feeds will work but the run opposite the direction they are supposed to (when moving mechanical engagement levers). BUT they move in the correct direction when the rapid feed is engaged. There are a couple of relevant diagrams (below)-- any suggestions for what to look for?

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Aciera F4 feed gearbox pics

May 16, 2020, 4:38 pm

≫ Next: New Deckel slotting head owner wondering about sales tax on purchase from Canada

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Just in case anyone had a burning curiosity to know what is hidden in the base of these marvellous machines, here are a couple of pictures

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New Deckel slotting head owner wondering about sales tax on purchase from Canada

May 18, 2020, 10:52 am

≫ Next: Deckel FP2 Aktiv maintenance and repair

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Hi Guys,

I've owned my FP1 for close to 2 years now and, last night, I made an offer on a slotting head in Montreal on eBay and we made a deal.

In the end, I paid about $100 more than what I was hoping to pay initially, but I'm ok with that. But then, when I got the invoice there was about another $100 in sales tax. That surprised me, because the seller is in Canada.

How does this work? I just can't see that the seller will send that money to the North Carolina treasury ever. I understand that some sellers in the US are required to collect sales tax, and I assume that there is a similar requirement in Canada. But even before the internet, there was never any sales tax collected for purchase outside the country I thought.

Is there anyone with more experience with such across the border purchases that knows what is what here? I have not paid yet, and I will call the seller later today to talk about pick up. I would like to know what I can do exactly. I don't want to badmouth him really, but when I got the invoice, it felt like a sneaky way to extract more money out of me. If it was a domestic transaction, I would understand, but this does not seem right to me.

Apologies if you think I should have just put this in a general forum. I put it here, because it is a Deckel purchase, but perhaps I am limiting my exposure. Anyway, I hope someone can give me some advice about this. If it is the law, that's fine, I'll just pay, I just want to make sure I'm not getting screwed.

Thanks,

Jacques

Deckel FP2 Aktiv maintenance and repair

May 19, 2020, 3:29 pm

≫ Next: Deckel FP2 Aktiv maintenance and repair

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Sorry double post, mods please delete if possible.

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Deckel FP2 Aktiv maintenance and repair

May 19, 2020, 3:31 pm

≫ Next: Deckel LK LKS LKD

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Hi All,

I’m starting this thread as a continuation of my how to ship and FP2 questions threads.
Plan is to give some details and pictures for general interest and to possibly help someone else in the future. Along with a place for me to ask for some help myself!

So a general situation to date. I contacted a dealer in South Africa 7 and a half months ago about a 1981 Deckel FP2 aktiv he had for sale, it was cheap.... with reason. The dealer was upfront with some problems. Very noisy gear train, feed drive trips some times, only one speed on the main motor a Swiss cheese table and allot of backlash on the Y axis. I’m sure I will add to that list as time goes on. The other issue being that it is in South Africa and I’m in New Zealand. Any way, a bit of haggling went on and in the end I purchased her for a little under 3k euro. What I hope turns out to be a good deal. Unfortunately shipping cost about the same again.

So, yesterday she arrived! I did ask for a substantial strong box, at around 350kg I think they followed through!

A quick clean up and poke around, first impression is very good. It has been my experience that things often look better in a picture than real life, this machine is actually the opposite for me.

I have had a bit of a look at the Y backlash ( it was a turn and a half on the hand wheel) and found the thrust washer backing plate bolts all very lose. I did them up till they stopped then undid 1/4 of a turn to not damage the thrust bearing. Backlash is now down to 0.2mm on the hand wheel. Obviously with some careful adjustments I will be able to lower this some more. What would be a normal amount? The thrust bearing was packed with dark smelly grease, I assume that this is not correct? It should be oiled? I don’t know why someone was playing around in here. The lock nuts that hold the screw have also been undone and left. The screw has a few scratches on the top of the threads. This will need further investigation.


Now for something that has me a bit puzzled. The vertical head slides on top of the Y axis, it has a nice chain drive to move it. When I first tried this I could only get about 30cm of movement before it came to a hard stop in both directions. Some fiddling with the middle lock and the head now slides a few more cm back. I have pulled the bolts out of all 3 locks, not much to see except that someone has been in there recently. The front lock is currently past the end of the slide so is not a problem, the back lock is on a smooth/ simple section of dovetail so shouldn’t be causing any problem. The middle lock is a bit unknown, it dose wiggle a little even when the pressure is kept on the chain drive against the stop, so this shouldn’t be the problem. Spindles turn fine so I don’t think it is a gear mesh problem.... Anyone have any thoughts on this? I’m a little bit stumped. I’m missing about 40cm travel back and about 5 cm front.

Sorry for the long post.

Regards,

BB

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Deckel LK LKS LKD

May 20, 2020, 4:32 am

≫ Next: Walter dividing head - SHU 4

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Hi
I just got myself a Deckel model LK, known as jig borer. I need to overhaul it a bit because it was sitting for a while and was not in use for some time. I. Was searching for a manual but couldn't find any. Do we have someone here that is willing to send it to me as PDF via email?

Walter dividing head - SHU 4

May 20, 2020, 9:31 am

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Hi
I have been looking this Walter dividing head SHU 4 but sadly doesn't have the carrying plate for a chuck. Is here someone that has this dividing head and would help me by measuring that tapered plate for the chuck. I would like to know before I buy it if it's possible to easily build this replacement part... Thank you


This is what's missing

WALTER - 3-jaw chuck f. dividing unit EST 4 O 160

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Italian one shot oiler fix

May 20, 2020, 7:17 pm

≫ Next: Deckel FP1: gear lever won't engage fully and gears slip

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I have a Milano oiler on my Rambaudi mill. It has been leaking through the stem on the handle since I bought it. I was expecting an O ring to replace but can not find a way to remove the spring loaded piston and handle from the cylinder. It may have been removed and put back on with the air hole pointed down and I will try moving it to face the top but wondering if anyone has ideas on taking it apart. No set screw, pins, or flats for a wrench. The piston seals look good so I don't think it was leaking through them/ The brass cylinder threads tight. Dave

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Deckel FP1: gear lever won't engage fully and gears slip

May 21, 2020, 10:56 am

≫ Next: Aciera F4 Horizontal drawbar

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Hello everyone,

I got hold of an old Deckel FP1, probably from the 1940s. Everything seems to be in good and working condition.


The only problem I have is the right lever for selecting the milling RPMs:

In the "right" position the lever engages fine and the mill can be used with no problem. If I put the lever in the "center" position, the gears seem to not engage completely (picture: red line). If I turn the mill by hand in this position, the gears sometimes don't engage fully and slip. However I am able to push the lever 3..4mm beyond the center position and then the gears fully engage and the mill can be used. (picture: green line)



Only problem: I need to hold the lever in this position by hand, since there is no locking mechanism of the lever beyond the center bore. If I push the lever beyond the center position and then let loose, the lever jumps back into the center bore and thus not engaging the gears fully anymore.

Does anybody know what could be the cause of this error and whether it is easy to fix or a train wreck?

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Aciera F4 Horizontal drawbar

May 25, 2020, 7:22 am

≫ Next: Aciera F5 Spindle Lock Electrical Interlock Repair

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Would anyone be able to post a picture or sketch, and a few dimensions, of an original horizontal drawbar for and F4?
I know I could use a piece of threaded rod, a washer and a nut, but I would like to build one that "at least resembles" an original.

Thanks
Peter

Aciera F5 Spindle Lock Electrical Interlock Repair

May 25, 2020, 9:44 pm

≫ Next: Rambaudi UR 60 spindle and quill gears

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My Aciera F5 was originally equipped with an interlock switch that was supposed to prevent turning on the spindle motor when the lock was engaged. That feature was broken when I got the machine. I figured that the cable that leads to the interlock had fatigued off because it had to move with the Y axis. The cable comes up to the bottom of the Y axis from the gearbox underneath and swims in oil.

The spindle lock is handy when loosening either the horizontal or vertical drawbar. It is not a necessity, because shifting into low gear and wrenching against the motor's inertia accomplishes the same thing. On the rare occasion when I would switch tools and leave the lock engaged, the drive belt would slip if I started the spindle. A couple of weekends ago, however, I started the motor against the lock while in low gear, and the belt did not slip. Instead, the lock skipped teeth and made awful noises. Fortunately, there was no permanent damage. I decided I needed to fix the interlock.

Access was a challenge to say the least. The first photo shows the view from the rear with the headstock slid forward. Unlike a Deckel or Schaublin 13, power is transmitted into the headstock via a long double-keyed shaft instead of a long pinion. The whole works is immersed in the transmission and, on my machine, looks practically brand new. There is a "carrier" piece that has a hollow shaft with captive keys that slides along the stationary drive shaft. The hollow shaft has a gear that sends power upward into the headstock. This carrier piece also has the bronze Y-axis feed nut parallel to and below the drive shaft.


The electrical connection for the interlock plugs into this red insulating plastic block fastened to the side of the carrier. The carrier normally belongs in under the headstock where a machined arced surface mates with the ground arced surface on top of the carrier. Four ground screws go through the bottom of the headstock into the carrier. The screw bodies are ground to act like dowels.




The F5 is famous for having an unnecessarily huge volume of gear oil, like 6 gallons. I siphoned it out so I could control the flow, hence the hose seen here.

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Rambaudi UR 60 spindle and quill gears

May 27, 2020, 8:51 pm

≫ Next: JFA Surface Plates - group buy?

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I opened up my Rambaudi spindle to look at the condition of the gears and check out the bearing adjustment. The gears are supposed to be set in DTE Heavy oil but had been changed to grease, and not a lot of it. The gears had grease but no excess in the cavity. The gasket to the cover was gone and I have no idea if oil will leak through the quill if changed back but looking for advice as to whether a return to oil should be done. The quill has an auto feed and the spindle tops lout at 1500 rpm. I forgot to take pictures but can add some later if that helps. thanks, Dave

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JFA Surface Plates - group buy?

May 28, 2020, 9:25 pm

≫ Next: Deckel FP4A Z-axis Vibration

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Howdy All,

Hope you don't mind me posting this here, but I thought it more appropriate than the Metrology forum. I've decided I just need to have a new Johann Fischer Aschaffenburg surface plate for my German and Swiss machine centric workshop. I just love the way the plates are detailed and finished.

I've been conversing with Mr. Fischer for some time. The prices are very comparable to reputable plates made here in the states, except that JFA's plates are typically thicker, made from Gabbro Impala, diamond finished on all surfaces including the bottom, and have steel ball-inserts installed as standard. Inspection certificates are included, and JFA won't ship a plate that is not at least twice as good as it's rating.

Obviously shipping granite from Germany to the USA is the prohibitive bit. But if I can get a few of you to go in with me, the cost of shipping for each comes way down.

Anyone have any interest? I would expect in the end that you could expect to spend about 50% more on a JFA plate than a quality domestic one, including shipping.

Please don't call me crazy.

JFA - Johann Fischer Aschaffenburg

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Deckel FP4A Z-axis Vibration

May 29, 2020, 11:13 am

≫ Next: MAHO 700 x/y feed clutches

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Hi!

Today was running program and everything worked like always.
Suddenly the z axis did strange noise and whole machine vibrated when z axis did rapid motion.

With feed it also moves jerky and when rapids engage... Crazy vibration.
Belt seemed to run fine and servo motor did not hear / feel unusual. I was working alone and i need somebody to push rapid button to hear/feel the z axis motor.

A bearing failure?
How big job it is to remove the z axis ballscrew/thrust bearings?
How to approach the disassembly?
Belt is tightened and fixed in place with motor mounting bolts?

A short clip of the vibration:

YouTube

MAHO 700 x/y feed clutches

May 31, 2020, 12:20 am

≫ Next: Deckel FP4A Part tool marks

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Hi guys, first post here !

I recently purchased a MAHO 700 in very bad condition and without any electricals. Just the iron. I have a question : must I stop the feed motor when changing feed from X to Y ( table and knee ) or it is safe to just engaged the clutches. I tried both ways and can hear no strain or noises. ( I have no idea how the MAHO clutches work ). We need this machine for a facing operation only. This is why we bought it.

Best regards and please stay safe !

Deckel FP4A Part tool marks

May 31, 2020, 6:59 am

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I am getting x and y both sides tool marks from the Cutter. This is mostly beacaus of the slow control and Cutter standing still?

Or backlash in the ballscrews/thrust bearing?

X axis has some backlash somewhere. I cannot use 0.01mm increment button to move the axis. It will give an error and shutdown the control. Everythin else works like should.

More and more wanting to upgrade to Advantech LNC control. This one is so jerky with moves. Atleast with high feeds :D