Potential FP2 shipping damage

July 10, 2020, 7:34 am

≫ Next: Abene VHF-3BS Spindle Removal

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I recently purchased a 1982 FP2 in excellent condition. I don't think it was a deal but a fair price.
I had to move it from Portland to Alaska Marine lines in Seattle. So I hired a machinery moving company that quoted 4K for that move. I think that's expensive but I wanted it crated and shipped without damage. I emailed the rigging instructions from the manual and confirmed that they were going to block the knee like it said and take off the 400+lb rotary table before shipment. I pointed out that the maximum table load was 800 lbs and that bouncing the machine around with a 400lb load would exceed that if it sees 2G's.
What happened was that they showed up with a flat bed and loaded the mill on the flat bed, without removing the rotary table or blocking the knee. They secured it to the flatbed by strapping over the back end of the table so that any loads the strap saw would be transmitted to the Z axis moving mechanism. Then they drove it through Portland to their warehouse to crate.

What is the chance that the accuracy of the Z axis mechanism would be affected by ignoring the rigging instructions and instead transporting with increased load on the table?

If I check DRO movement vs that on the dial when I change height would that pick up the damage?
If I support the table so it isn't preloaded by gravity would it show up as increased Z axis backlash?

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Abene VHF-3BS Spindle Removal

July 10, 2020, 5:17 pm

≫ Next: Basic Operation of Dialog 4 Controller

≪ Previous: Potential FP2 shipping damage

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Hi folks,

Has anyone with an Abene VHF-3BS (quill head) ever taken their head apart? (Mid 80's vintage) I am opening everything up to clean and re-grease. I have taken out the nose guide ring, and the down-feed mechanism. The only thing left is to slide the spindle sleeve out of the head. I believe the only thing left is to loosen is the two pin cap nut at the top of the spindle, which traps the return spring.

I made a two pin wrench, and would like someone who has done this before, to confirm they are normal threads (lefty loosey) and not reverse threads, before I start to lift my feet off the floor to get this to loosen.

Thanks much,

W

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Basic Operation of Dialog 4 Controller

July 12, 2020, 1:02 am

≫ Next: Deckel FP1 MK1, wiring diagram (board with fuses)

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Hello all. I have a Deckel FP5 NC which I have been working on with the help of a very knowledgeable Electronics guy by the name of Michael on this forum. I am very indebted to him for the hours he worked with me getting things worked out.
Initially the machine had various electronic faults and required quite a bit of investigation as to why it was not operating.
Any way long story short, the control is now working well, all axis jog correctly and machine homes well.
One thing that I cannot get operating is the spindle. I am not sure of the sequence for initiating that. Does this need to be done through a data input, or small pgm?
My other problem is that I need someone that would not mind helping me with some basic instructions for operating the Dialog 4 controller, eg basic pgm input, etc
Once I can get past the basics, It should be ok as I am familiar with CNC mills.

Much appreciated for any help you can offer.

Deckel FP1 MK1, wiring diagram (board with fuses)

July 13, 2020, 12:06 am

≫ Next: Maho MH800C 5axis Philips 532 - B02 alarm (measuring system alarm)

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Hello,

I have bought an old beauty, Deckel FP1, pre-MK1, year 1935.

I have tested it and it works but when checking wires and installation (just in case), I have found a mess. Obviously fuse box was loosen so chips, oil.. came in. Power cable has disintegrated, also on the plug end, isolation is falling apart.
Motor, switch, "internal" cabling look solid, it was made of some other type of cable, I will just check the resistance and leave as is for now.

This is Siemens 3-phase, 2-speed motor. I guess all MK1 machines with similar motor should have the same wiring scheme but I'm not able to find one. Can someone please share info, or link on this forum or outside please ?

Cheers

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Maho MH800C 5axis Philips 532 - B02 alarm (measuring system alarm)

July 13, 2020, 12:12 am

≫ Next: Deckel S20x2 thread adapters

≪ Previous: Deckel FP1 MK1, wiring diagram (board with fuses)

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Hello All,
Our company bought this used machine around 2 months ago and we didn't power it up since last week.
Machine parameters are still there. I tried to bring the axes to RP, x,y,z were ok but axis B (turning rotary table around y axis) wont move at all. neither manual nor with RP command. If you try, the hydrolic will power off.

When i try to RP axis A (rotary table), the table wont stop moving!

Any suggestion?

b.t.w with the machine we got a 3axis vertical postprocessor. What should we do for a 5axis processor? should we buy it from DMG MORI? or it can be downloaded?

Thanks alot,

Afshin

Deckel S20x2 thread adapters

July 17, 2020, 2:06 am

≫ Next: Oil pool under horizontal drawbar, Deckel FP2

≪ Previous: Maho MH800C 5axis Philips 532 - B02 alarm (measuring system alarm)

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Hi All,

I'm looking to buy some of the S20x2 to M16 (passably a couple of the 5/8th as well) threaded adapters from Franz. He seems to have 2 main types, a straight body and one with a flange. Dose anyone know what these fit? I'm assuming it depends on what holder you are trying to adapt?
any help would be great, thanks.

Oil pool under horizontal drawbar, Deckel FP2

July 22, 2020, 12:00 pm

≫ Next: Deckel Accessory Management

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Deckel FP2 owners...

This is a new thread but not a new topic. It concerns the oil pool visible here



this is below the horizontal drawbar on an FP2. A cross section drawing is here:



Previous discussion of this oil pool can be found starting at the end of this post, and in the discussion that follows:

Making a slotting/shaper head cutter

I think I now understand the problem and also the solution, and wanted to run it by people here.

I think the problem is very simple: the cap at the back is leaking out the bottom because it is a poor fit. The amount of oil that leaks back along the shaft groove and around the shaft OD is minimal. But oil going through the rear bearing just leaks under that rear cover.

Solution 1: seal up the rear cover with some permatex or equivalent

Solution 2: in addition to above, replace the rear bearing with a rubber (RS) sealed bearing, from which the inside seal has been removed, but not the outside one.

I would be interested in any feedback about this. That pool of oil really bugs me. The oil in the speeds gearbox should stay there, where it belongs.

Cheers,
Bruce

Deckel Accessory Management

July 24, 2020, 12:13 am

≫ Next: Adapter for MT3 tools in FP1

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Finished the first of two storage cabinets for my Deckel accessories, this cabinet mostly holds the larger tables. A future post will show the second cabinet for storing the various milling heads.

My solution is built around these key features:
- bridge crane which provides coverage for the entire room
- slide-out shelves which provide vertical access to each accessory
- t-slot inserts to allow for top attachment of hoist straps

Here is photo of overall storage cabinet:


Here is top shelf open showing the spiral machining attachment and the swivelling fixed table:


Here is middle shelf open showing the indexing head with counter-support and the horizontal over-arm:


Here is the bottom shelf open showing the swivelling turntable with indexing attachment and the placed rotary:


Here is the bridge crane in action:


Bridge crane can be moved directly over the Deckel to allow for very convenient install of any of these accessories.

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Adapter for MT3 tools in FP1

July 26, 2020, 3:08 am

≫ Next: Anyone interested in a group buy of Kluber IsoFlex TEL 50mg tubes?

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I have an FP1 with MT4.
Most of my tools are MT3, with "MTB" type - M12 to screw in the drawbar (pic 1).
What is the good way to make an adapter, safe to use and easy to extract?
I was thinking to use MT4 to MT3 adapter (pic 2), cut the top and then make some joining part for drawbar.

Any help appreciated...

Thanks

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Anyone interested in a group buy of Kluber IsoFlex TEL 50mg tubes?

July 27, 2020, 10:31 am

≫ Next: 1980 FP3 with DC Drive Issues

≪ Previous: Adapter for MT3 tools in FP1

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CORRECTION: 50 GRAM tubes, not 50mg!

So.... Kluber Isoflex TEL hasn't been available for a while in the United States. According to the Kluber rep, it isn't manufactured anymore, but that doesn't seem to be absolutely correct. There are some locations in Europe that seem to still sell it. However, *getting* the stuff shipped over here is somewhere between ridiculous and laughable! We should all be in shipping now, apparently!

Anyhow, this has me thinking that perhaps we can aggregate an order of TEL and buy some before it is truly not available anywhere. Once in the States, it can be shipped pretty inexpensively, so the key is to aggregate the international side of things. I'm guessing that a 50g tube will end up being about $50 +/- probably $5. It is all very difficult to say exactly, until I get a feel of how many (if any) people are interested in buying TEL.

This is not a profit motive. In fact, I am probably foolish for even considering the whole thing. But, if you are interested in pursuing a group buy, please let me know either in this post or via email: deckel.dvd@gmail.com Please do not use the practical machinist messaging. I find that PM fills up so quickly that it really isn't very useful.

Please note that there is no commitment that I'll even pursue this. I'm only trying to gauge interest. And because I don't want to get stuck with 20 tubes of Kluber grease, there would definitely need to be either a deposit or a full payment before I bought the tubes

1980 FP3 with DC Drive Issues

July 29, 2020, 9:11 pm

≫ Next: Seeking spare parts for 2 lever FP-1

≪ Previous: Anyone interested in a group buy of Kluber IsoFlex TEL 50mg tubes?

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Hi All,

I recently received this machine from a fellow PM member with known DC drive issues. Machine arrived better than he described and I’m trilled to have it.

I’m picking up where he left off with trying to get the feeds to work properly. Ive traced all wires per the diagram and found them to be in the correct place. The issues is similar to the weak Z up post in where the DC drive motor seems to have very little power. Ive replaced the potentiometer with a 10k as suggested in previous posts, with no change in operation. DC motor runs only when potentiometer is all the way to one side, and is off when in slow speed setting. Still very weak in all directions, specially Z up which acts as if the motor is stalling. The rapid does speed up the drive, still weak z up. The creep in the other hand does not work. When pressing the creep button, the relay clicks but the drive motor turns off, the power up sequence must be done (blue and white together) to get it back running. I have new caps coming based on other posts, hoping that will fix the issue.


I’d like to replace the A2B board with a known good unit, the one I have has several traces redone, although they look to be in good shape, it would be nice to have a unmolested part.

If theres anyone in the NorCal area that has some knowledge of this machine I’d gladly pay you for your time to help diagnose, I’m in Oakland.

Thanks in advance

Jon

Seeking spare parts for 2 lever FP-1

July 30, 2020, 8:35 pm

≫ Next: Abene DRO for quill ?

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Recently my Deckel FP-1 was the victim of of my foolishness, in not securing it to a forklift, when moving it. It quickly flopped off, and took out the x-axis handle, inch leadscrew, and right side x axis bearing block. As a final insult, it damaged the z axis handle, as well as the y axis handwheel. I hit the trifecta. I am hoping to find some used spares, as these are not common. Yes, I have searched eBay, eBay.de, for months.
A fellow forum member (ballen) has been most gracious, answering questions about search terms for eBay.de, and offering his advice.

I have reached out to Singer, in Germany, but have been advised that they are at a reduced capacity, due to Covid-19.
I am hoping that perhaps someone in the US may have some spares, or a caniballized machine. My machine is "inch", SN# FVW2 54701.
Of course I cannot find the year tag, but believe about 1958. Thanks. Scott

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Abene DRO for quill ?

August 2, 2020, 12:38 pm

≫ Next: New machine day: Bought an Aciera F5

≪ Previous: Seeking spare parts for 2 lever FP-1

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Anyone ever fabricated a DRO for the quill of an Abene VHF3 ?

New machine day: Bought an Aciera F5

August 4, 2020, 3:53 am

≫ Next: DMU 60P machine, low head hydraulic pressure problem

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After using my Pedersen VPV-1 for 10+ years I really wanted a newer type milling machine that was a bit more versatile. The Pedersen is very good for large parts and heavy machining but a missed a couple of features like:
- Rapid feed (mostly on the vertical axis, that table is heavy!
- The ability to machine with a horizontal arbor
- A table that can be set at an angle

While I really wasn't looking to buy one, I came across an ad which had only a couple of fuzzy pictures and a description "Mill with accessoires". After checking the pictures best I could, I could see that is was an Aciera F5. The price was very low especially with the tooling that it came with. I made an appointment and checked it out with my friend JW (Botje on this forum). We talked to the seller who was closing his business due to retirement and his son didn't want to continue the business. He had two Acieras for sale that he bought 9 years ago from the RWTH Aachen (university in Aachen, Germany) but he hasn't used them much since then. Both machines were in a very good condition. The ways show little to no wear, the scraping marks are still visible. Obviously we bought both machines for a price that made us feel like we stole it from him :D


Anyway, enjoy the pictures, more will follow.

Here is how we got the F4 and F5 home


This is my F5


It came with this awesome rotary table


And a couple of dividing heads with attachments to rotate them around two axes


In the box is a Wohlhaupter UPA4

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DMU 60P machine, low head hydraulic pressure problem

August 4, 2020, 6:15 am

≫ Next: Mystery part

≪ Previous: New machine day: Bought an Aciera F5

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Hello everyone, I introduce myself, my name is Marco, I live in Italy and this is my first post on this forum.
I recently acquired a Deckel-Maho DMU 60P machine produced in 1998.
The machine was in operation in Germany until the end of February 2020.
I have all the electrical diagrams of the machine, but unfortunately I do not have the use and maintenance manual.
I can manually move the 5 continuous axes but I have problems in clamping/unclamping the additional head axis.
I have already checked all the end switches and I suspect that the hydraulic power unit (serving only the head) may have problems. In fact, the hydraulic pressure rises to only 40 bar.
My machine is equipped with a hydraulic power pack for discontinuous use from Hawe model MC3 that is no longer produced. In the meantime, I have purchased a new hydraulic unit with with enough (I hope) flow capability and tunable up to 300 bar.
Has anyone on the forum ever had anything to do with this machine (or a similar DMU 80P, 100P, 120P, etc.)?
Could he/she tell me what is the correct hydraulic pressure for this machine?
Thanks in advance.

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Mystery part

August 11, 2020, 11:08 am

≫ Next: Coolant leaks

≪ Previous: DMU 60P machine, low head hydraulic pressure problem

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Dug out a box of misc. Deckel parts today , blew the dust off and inside the box were a pair of
these formed metal parts.
Bent from round stock with 6x1.0 threads at the ends. Look to be cad or zinc plated. appear unused.

Don't look like anything i have ever seen on a Deckel mill, perhaps an engraver, or maybe they are just some random bits that happened to be in this box....

Material is 8mm dia. the overall size is 121 x 95 give or take.



Cheers Ross

Coolant leaks

August 12, 2020, 4:27 pm

≫ Next: What's this screw for? (1964 FP2, Y-axis lock & gauge block bar)

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I have a lot of coolant leaking on the floor, so trying to figure out where it is coming from. The projects I have been working on lately direct a lot of coolant towards the FP2NC column, and the oil seems to be seeping from under the machine. I pulled out the coolant tank and checked the hose from the machine base, but did not see any obvious leaks. The level of coolant in the tank is about the same as the top of the column drain hose top. The hose from the table enclosure to the tank is not leaking. The coolant pump output tubing is not leaking. The oil catch basin at the rear of the machine was pretty full, so I emptied it (the level was about ½" above the drain hole from the interior of the column). I am assuming that the catch basin is designed to overflow into the coolant drain on the right side of the base, is that correct?

What's this screw for? (1964 FP2, Y-axis lock & gauge block bar)

August 13, 2020, 3:48 am

≫ Next: Deckel FP1 Vertical Head management

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Could someone please enlighten me, what's this screw for? It's got a round tip, and in the hole I can see some sort of matching cup. This is on my 1964 FP2. The screw goes into the horizontal bar at the top, parallel to the Y axis, that carries the Y-axis scale (0-200mm), the Y-axis lock, and has a platform for holding gauge blocks for Y axis measurements. In the photo below, you can see the screw hole just above and to the right of the screw tip.

Deckel FP1 Vertical Head management

August 13, 2020, 10:28 pm

≫ Next: Help please! Grundig dialog 3 or Deckel dialog 4 manual wanted!

≪ Previous: What's this screw for? (1964 FP2, Y-axis lock & gauge block bar)

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Got my FPS 300M/Deckel FP1 Vertical Head management situation worked out, see attached photo showing the newly installed hoist ring and use of my bridge crane to lift up the vertical head:

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Help please! Grundig dialog 3 or Deckel dialog 4 manual wanted!

August 16, 2020, 6:37 am

≫ Next: Importing mill from Europe to USA.... broker needed or DIY ?

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Greetings to everyone!
Sorry about my bad English. I am looking for a manual for Deckel dialog 4 or Grundig contour 3 control.
thank you very much!